The easy bit is the engine. It's a Kwaka 750cc Mach 1V. Dunno about the frame, and the front end is much more modern.
What bike is this?
- Thread starter KZ
- Start date
You`d hope the frame and wheels were an improvement on the original H2 "widowmaker".
back in the late 80`s some guys in Oz were racing historic on H2`s (mach IV`s) with new carbs,ignitions,chambers,suspension and of course tyres.
they were a fairly good,stable,reliable race machine.never any question marks about the power output from those great 750 two stroke engines.
here`s another interesting bike.
back in the late 80`s some guys in Oz were racing historic on H2`s (mach IV`s) with new carbs,ignitions,chambers,suspension and of course tyres.
they were a fairly good,stable,reliable race machine.never any question marks about the power output from those great 750 two stroke engines.
here`s another interesting bike.
250 Horsepower 2 stroke -- Woo Hoo!!Cruising;272815 wrote: here`s another interesting bike.
TSS ZX-10R Two-Stroke Engine
^ Nice "guess" Col 555
"Anyone after a 250 rear wheel horsepower at 9500rpm, and just shy of DOUBLE the torque of the original ZX-10R motor?
This will be easily achievable, with an engine that weighs 25kg less than the outgoing four-stroke 1000cc engine.
For those interested in their own slice of two, three or four-cylinder two-stroke madness, we will be building five of these 1100cc two stroke power-valve engines"
TSS1100GP Kawasaki Triple - Under Development
Steve Rothwell
The Two-Stroke Shop
9 Compass Close, Edge Hill
Cairns 4870
Tropical North Queensland, Australia
Tel. (In Australia): 0427 774 285
Tel. (Outside Australia): +61 427 774 285
"Anyone after a 250 rear wheel horsepower at 9500rpm, and just shy of DOUBLE the torque of the original ZX-10R motor?
This will be easily achievable, with an engine that weighs 25kg less than the outgoing four-stroke 1000cc engine.
For those interested in their own slice of two, three or four-cylinder two-stroke madness, we will be building five of these 1100cc two stroke power-valve engines"
TSS1100GP Kawasaki Triple - Under Development
Steve Rothwell
The Two-Stroke Shop
9 Compass Close, Edge Hill
Cairns 4870
Tropical North Queensland, Australia
Tel. (In Australia): 0427 774 285
Tel. (Outside Australia): +61 427 774 285
555 - no guessing involved when you leave this on the image -
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uxSxuPRoS4s/SjDRQOnTzwI/AAAAAAAAAFM/tn-91G4ZcBs/s320/tss-s-zx-10r-two-str_460x0w.jpg
A quick google of "tss-s-zx-10r" gave me this :lol::wave:
Never had a chance to ride the 750-3, only the 350-3 & that was quite a handfull! almost bought one then wisdom prevailed & I bought a Honda 500-4 instead. Had I unlimited money to start a collection I think the 500-3 Kwak would have to be on the buying list!
You're right there, it started out as the 2012 "Integra", a scooter-looking MC with 17' wheels. The DN-01 flopped but I think Honda is onto something. Same as BMW with their C-series which came out ten (20?) years too early. The DN had an 650cc V-twin in it, as far as I remember, the 52 degree version found in lots of Hondas, like Africa Twins a.s.o.
But Honda didn't give up, made some compromises and built a practical half-scooter-half-bike with a new lightweight 670cc parallel twin, 270 degree crank, around 50 horses.
I wouldn't be interested in the Integra but they're introducing two other versions with the same engine/chassis. The NC 700 S is a naked bike, the NC 700 X has the cross-over look and might just be an interesting ride if it'll be offered for a low price. Decent suspension, storage under the 'tank' lid (tank as you can see is in the rear) and great fuel economy.
In the Eighties the Japanese saw the need for "cruisers" and created a new market segment that mushroomed into almost a third of total new sales.
Now they're testing the waters with the scooter/MC hybrid and I'm sure in ten years they will be a very common sight!
Btw, like the new way to upload pics! Even I could do it first try.
Attached files
But Honda didn't give up, made some compromises and built a practical half-scooter-half-bike with a new lightweight 670cc parallel twin, 270 degree crank, around 50 horses.
I wouldn't be interested in the Integra but they're introducing two other versions with the same engine/chassis. The NC 700 S is a naked bike, the NC 700 X has the cross-over look and might just be an interesting ride if it'll be offered for a low price. Decent suspension, storage under the 'tank' lid (tank as you can see is in the rear) and great fuel economy.
In the Eighties the Japanese saw the need for "cruisers" and created a new market segment that mushroomed into almost a third of total new sales.
Now they're testing the waters with the scooter/MC hybrid and I'm sure in ten years they will be a very common sight!
Btw, like the new way to upload pics! Even I could do it first try.
Attached files
The DN-01 flopped because it was boring to ride and ridiculously expensive.
Who is this new design aimed at? What's it going to cost?
What "real" motorcycle rider is going to be attracted to a full size bike that only cranks out 50Hp?
What can this new bike do that a maxi-scooter can't?
The Yamaha TMAX for example puts out 40Hp and handles like a sport bike but has all the conveniences of a scooter.
Honda's got their Siverwing maxi-scooter and Suzuki weighs in with the Burgman 650 but neither are sold in Thailand. Back in the US they are all in the ~US$9000 range.
Time will tell if this new Honda is a success or a flop. At first glance I'm not terribly impressed, but if the price is right I imagine this bike could appeal to some commuters and...
Who is this new design aimed at? What's it going to cost?
What "real" motorcycle rider is going to be attracted to a full size bike that only cranks out 50Hp?
What can this new bike do that a maxi-scooter can't?
The Yamaha TMAX for example puts out 40Hp and handles like a sport bike but has all the conveniences of a scooter.
Honda's got their Siverwing maxi-scooter and Suzuki weighs in with the Burgman 650 but neither are sold in Thailand. Back in the US they are all in the ~US$9000 range.
Time will tell if this new Honda is a success or a flop. At first glance I'm not terribly impressed, but if the price is right I imagine this bike could appeal to some commuters and...
"The DN-01 flopped because it was boring to ride and ridiculously expensive." I don't want to argue with that - there may be more reasons, one I can think of is that it's plain ugly.
"Who is this new design aimed at?" Probably at the aging sport and touring riders of yesterday, who are not that sporty anymore, who prefer a lighter, easier to handle bike for shorter tours. Riders who are looking for a more practical, economic bike who wouldn't want to be seen on a scooter. Maybe women who like to ride but find sport or standard bikes too sporty or too standard. Commuters who can't afford a car?
"What's it going to cost?" Well, that's the big question! Everybody likes low prices, and if it'll be cheap some riders may consider it as a 2nd or 3rd bike. If it's going to be $9,000 people may buy a car. Then again it has a lot of technology; Honda's Combined Antilock Braking System (C-ABS), and the second generation dual clutch for quick, smooth gearshifts. DCT can be operated in fully automatic mode and offers the option of shifting gears manually, by simply pushing a button and without having to use a manual clutch. So it probably won't be cheap.
"What "real" motorcycle rider is going to be attracted to a full size bike that only cranks out 50Hp?" No "real" rider, that's for sure! But then again my old XS650 had only 50 hp, Kawaski's W 650 has only 50 hp and a sweet Moto Guzzi V7 has only 50 hp, not to forget the Harley Sportster...
"What can this new bike do that a maxi-scooter can't?" Look like a bike. The NC 700 S and X versions, at least.
"The Yamaha TMAX for example puts out 40Hp and handles like a sport bike but has all the conveniences of a scooter." The NC 700 puts out more hp and especially torque, has a 270 degree crank that should make it sound cool with the right exhaust, should handle even better (17" instead of 15") and also has storage space. Personally I prefer the bike-like seating position, on a scooter the position is too upright and I miss the tank between my knees.
The bigger scooters of Honda and especially the Burgman look like shyte - they're reasons to wear a T-shirt saying: "You won't see me dead on a SCOOTER!"
Have you seen BMWs new scooters? Why are they suddenly building scooters?
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to sell you one, I don't even want one for myself. But I think the NC 700 S and X versions are an interesting compromise, Honda learned some lessons and is using a much better approach. I say they are a step in the right direction, motorcycling will change and something like this will be one of the bikes of the future.
"Who is this new design aimed at?" Probably at the aging sport and touring riders of yesterday, who are not that sporty anymore, who prefer a lighter, easier to handle bike for shorter tours. Riders who are looking for a more practical, economic bike who wouldn't want to be seen on a scooter. Maybe women who like to ride but find sport or standard bikes too sporty or too standard. Commuters who can't afford a car?
"What's it going to cost?" Well, that's the big question! Everybody likes low prices, and if it'll be cheap some riders may consider it as a 2nd or 3rd bike. If it's going to be $9,000 people may buy a car. Then again it has a lot of technology; Honda's Combined Antilock Braking System (C-ABS), and the second generation dual clutch for quick, smooth gearshifts. DCT can be operated in fully automatic mode and offers the option of shifting gears manually, by simply pushing a button and without having to use a manual clutch. So it probably won't be cheap.
"What "real" motorcycle rider is going to be attracted to a full size bike that only cranks out 50Hp?" No "real" rider, that's for sure! But then again my old XS650 had only 50 hp, Kawaski's W 650 has only 50 hp and a sweet Moto Guzzi V7 has only 50 hp, not to forget the Harley Sportster...
"What can this new bike do that a maxi-scooter can't?" Look like a bike. The NC 700 S and X versions, at least.
"The Yamaha TMAX for example puts out 40Hp and handles like a sport bike but has all the conveniences of a scooter." The NC 700 puts out more hp and especially torque, has a 270 degree crank that should make it sound cool with the right exhaust, should handle even better (17" instead of 15") and also has storage space. Personally I prefer the bike-like seating position, on a scooter the position is too upright and I miss the tank between my knees.
The bigger scooters of Honda and especially the Burgman look like shyte - they're reasons to wear a T-shirt saying: "You won't see me dead on a SCOOTER!"
Have you seen BMWs new scooters? Why are they suddenly building scooters?
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to sell you one, I don't even want one for myself. But I think the NC 700 S and X versions are an interesting compromise, Honda learned some lessons and is using a much better approach. I say they are a step in the right direction, motorcycling will change and something like this will be one of the bikes of the future.
Enigma 1050'speed triple engine newly developed frame .
Link for the bikes development is;http://enigma1050.co.uk/
Link for the bikes development is;http://enigma1050.co.uk/
KZ25
First one is a Benelli, in some countries sold under many different names, Keeway, Qianjiang, CPI, Generic and some 20 other brand names. Today it is probably made in Indonesia in a town called Coventry, which maybe could make old Triumph manager Edward Turner "turn around in his grave". Turner is also the designer of many classic Ariel models like Ariel Square Four and all Triumph Twins starting from the Speed Twin.
The owner of the factory is the Chinese Group Quinjiang, maybe the biggest Chinese motorcycle factory with a production of about 1,5 million motorbikes per Year. Their main factory is in Zhejiang some 150 km from Shanghai. I’ve been there and it is a huge complex probably covering an area of some ten soccer fields.
The original Benelli factory is founded in 1911 by Terese Benelli and her 6 sons in Pesaro Italy. One of the sons Giuseppe Benelli later had a dispute with the family and established a new factory with the name of Motobi. Some ten years later they stopped fighting and merged again. It was at one time in the 1970:s owned by the fake Argentian “count” De Tomaso, who also bought Moto Guzzi and the car manufacturer Lamborghini. The car factory was later sold to Indonesia’s strongman Suhartos Tommy son who explained that there is a demand for cars like this in Indonesia and Indonesia needs the car technology…If he hasn’t been freed he is still in jail. Volkswagen is now owner of the brand. Moto Guzzi, together with Aprillia is now owned by the Piaggio Group, linked to Fiat and maybe more famous for Vespa. I think they have a factory now in Thailand. Benelli was sold to the Chinese in the early 2000.
Benellis history in Italy is full of legends. In road racing they had plenty of success with drivers like Mike Hailwood, Renzo Pasolini, Walter Villa and the world’s ever best road racer Jarno Saarinen. Jarno Saarinen and Renzo Pasolini died in 1973 at Monza in a crash that should have brought the organizers to jail. If You want to know a little about that crash go to
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/f14/some-gp-history-tragic-1973-gp-monza-107588/
http://www.motorsportretro.com/2009/09/jarno-saarinen-%E2%80%93-gp-genius-part-ii/
The accident in Monza 1973 was in the first lap in Curva Grande. Renzo Pasolini crashed into an oil stream, left from Benelli factory rider Walter Villa (later several world champions on Harley/Aermachi) in the previous 350 race, but the organizer refused to cancel the race even if they knew about the oil. Pasolini went down with his Harley/Aermachi, Jarno maybe hit Pasolini when he was down but couldn’t do anything else than slide off the circuit. Jarno was just overtaking Pasolini. Both riders together with 15 others where thrown back on the circuit from the strawballs in front of the newly installed steel barriers. Jarnos Yamaha teammate Hideo Kanaya succeeded to get off from the track quite safely behind Jarno. Kent Andersson, the Swedish 125 cc worldchampion probably drove over Jarno and that killed him.
Before the race a French journalist tried to stop the 250 start in vain, the organizers just called the policia to arrest the man for obstruction of the event. The road racer Australian John Dodds who later that year became third in the 1973 250cc world championship (next year he won the Formula750 world championship) behind German Dieter Braun and another Finn Teuvo Lansivuori, tried to warn the drivers about the oil but he didn’t find Pasolini and Jarno. Officially the cause of the crash was that Renzo Pasolinis bike’s engine’s pistons seized.
Before that in Benellis history, Italian Davio Ambrosini won the 250 cc worldcahmpionm ship on a Benelli 250 in 1950. Next world champion on a Benelli was the Australian Kel Caruthers who won the world championship in 1969 also on a 250cc Benelli. Kel Carruthers went on to Work for Yamaha America and he educated some young talents like Kenny Roberts and Eddie Lawson. Familiar names? He was also involved in some MX- and Skidoo teams. Both Ambrosini and Kel Carruthers also won on Isle of Man on Benellis and I think that even before that some English guy also did it on a Benelli. Benelli was a legend.
I have some other connections also with Benelli. I used to import Benelli to Finland in the 1980:s and I visited the factory in Pesaro a few times. The only bikes I imported were actually an old stock of 750 Benelli Sei a six cylinder bike that was quite modern despite the fact that it was copied from the Honda 500 Four with two cylinders more. It was not a very good bike, but the sound was….The four cylinder Racing bikes that Benelli had in the 1960-1970 were probably also copied from Honda. Mike Hailwood was not satisfied with the frames for his racing Hondas and he sent the bikes to Italy to have new frames made. On that trip the engines were copied for Benelli according to the rumors.
Even if it doesn’t belong to this thread and site I can not loose this opportunity to tell something more about the legends who died in Monza both former Benelli factory drivers. I’ve seen them “live” many times and during the early 1970:s I travelled with my motorbike to most of all the Road Race events in Europe and later many times to Daytona.
For all You guys who think that road racing is only “jet-set style life”, beautiful women and staying in luxury hotels it was not that in the 1970:s. 90% of the riders was camping at the circuits, some in tents some in their transport cars, The English riders had their modified Bedfords and Leylands that could transport their bikes and when their bikes were out it was transformed into a “beautiful suite hotel”. Jarno Saarinen for example lived the first years of his racing carrier in his Volkswagen Sonnenschein Kleinbus together with his beautiful wife Soile. He had no mechanics, he fixed the bikes in the night between the practices and the races. He arrived to one of the first “GP-races”, was in Hockenheim, with the bike in his family”s funeral company’s car which they used to transport the dead bodies. He made an impression on his fellow riders, not only because of that, but also because introducing a new riding style “the knee on the asphalt”. Many riders thought that the man is mad and dangerous, I think that both Barry Schene and Phil Read complained about him but he was faster than them and he didn’t fall down more than anybody else.
The riders at that time were 90% amateurs riding with their own money and in their budget were the starting fee a big income. Therefore they had to participate in as many classes as possibly, they needed the starting money. They were fast mechanics also, so a 250 Yamaha were quickly converted into 350 between the races and sometimes they also started n the 500 events with the “illegal” 350 just make the start and collect the starting fee. I also know that sometimes, when their bikes broke down during the race they pushed the bikes across the finishing line a few miles just to get the extra fee for finishing the race.
Many of the riders also smuggled alcohol to the Scandinavians races. The alcohol was expensive there and it was easy to fill up all your “gasoline canisters” with 96% pure alcohol and lie to the customs that it is racing gasoline. Unfortunally some riders and later teams started to smuggle more heavy stuff to finance their sport. Another feature that lead to criminality later was that all money was paid in “brown envelopes” cash.
When I travelled, following the road racing circus in the early 1970:s I travelled with motorbike, But during that time it was easy to get into the same paddock camping were most of the riders lived. Off course riders like Giacomo Agostini, Phil Read, Barry Scheene etc, they stayed in hotels. Same did Jarno Saarinen during the last year of his carrier but before that he lived with the other riders at the camping and after he got some money as a factory rider, he told that he missed the life at the paddock with his friends. As a privateer, racing was more fun than being a factory rider.
Before the 1973 crash at Monza, Jarno Saarinen won Daytona 200 miles race for 750cc on a 350cc Yamaha, half a lap before his team boss Kel Carruthers they drove for American Yamaha. I think third was American Gene Romero also on a Yamaha 350. After that race he went on to win almost all races 1973 in the beginning of the road racing world championships, in the 500 cc class on a totally new 4 cylinder 2-stroke Yamaha. It all ended in Monza. During his short carrier as in the world champion ships he drove 3 seasons, started in 46 races and got 32 podiums. He was world champion in 1972 with a 250 cc Yamaha 1 point in front of Renzo Pasolini. To describe how amateur based the sport was then, that in 1971 Jarno was second in the world championships with some five races left. He asked the technical school were he studied to become an automotive engineer if he could get leave for the remaining races. The principal refused so Jarno had to end the season and return to shool from which he graduated as the best of the class.
Jarno was also racing with Benelli 4 cylinders and was every time faster than Giacomo Agostini. Benelli wanted to sign him desperately but he only drove for them on a temporally ad hoc basis. Off course Yamaha had the bigger financial resources at the end. In Italy, especially in Pesaro, he was and is a legend. There is plenty of active Jarno Saarinen Fan clubs there and they have very good and active Internet sites. Also in Holland he was a hero and you can find quite a lot of internet sites in tribute to him.
Actually it is even the same in OZ and Australia. Everybody knows that he was the fastest driver on the earth, Kenny Roberts, Eddie Lawson, Agostini, Phil Read, Barry Sheene, Dieter Braun,Walter Villa, Kel Caruthers,Teuvo Lansivuori, Don Emde, Rodney Gould, Kenneth Andersson, Borje Jansson, all world champions or next to it, have at different occasions “confessed” that Jarno was the fastest.
The Yamaha factory honored their hero and racing jewel by retiring from Road racing after Jarnos death. In the 1972 Yamaha worldwide brochures, all the pictures with the street models was driven by Jarno, in some pictures with his wife Soile. He was very popular at Yamaha because they knew that he was the fastest of the fast but also because he was a damned nice person with a good language skill and a splendid mechanic, All this together with a love for motorcycles took him long, but it ended to early and too abrupt.
Jarno was also honored in many other ways. In his hometown Turku there is a street called Jarno Saarinen street, his brothers are running a small, but good Jarno Museum in the same premises where they are running the family funeral business, his graveyard is a tourist object for hundreds of motorcyclists all over the world every year, especially from Italy and Holland. He was inducted into the MotoGP Hall of Fame in 2009, The American Motorcycle Heritage Foundation (AMHF) has him as the 2012 nominee for induction into the AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame., Benelli honored him by naming a Benelli model Jarno, the Formula one driver Jarno Trulli got his first name because his Italian father was a Jarno Saarinen fan. Equatarian Guinea honored him by making a stamp with Jarno… And he died almost 4o years ago!!! If You are interested pls go google Jarno Saarinen, there are hundreds of stories, pictures and videos about him. I have plenty of files about him, if somebody is interested I can try to post some here on this site.
In Australian MC-new’s Murray Barnard wrote many years after Jarno’s death :
“Jarno went on to Monza and into History. Against big and small Jarno could not fail to impress and his early death shocked the racing going public. No one could ever follow the races without the nagging fear that tragedy may strike again. Many riders had died in competition and the race still went on; but Jarnos death was enough to shake up the whole race world. Enough is enough and the factories and riders stood up and demanded safer conditions and greater care in race management. Jarno’s unexpected legacy is that today we have far safer racing environment. It is a shame that men like Jarno had to die before anyone would sit up and take notice”
Renzo Pasolini was also a very popular rider in Italy, more popular than Agostini and Walter Villa. Maybe that is a part of the reasons why Jarno has become such a legend in Italy. There is plenty of stuff about Renzo on the internet also, active fan clubs etc. He was more of a “common guy” than Agostini and his driving style was more spectacular. Ducati honored him by calling their once classic 750 model Ducati Paso and AGV had a helmet called AGV Paso.
Below You can see some nostalgian pictures of Jarno and Paso on Benellis, Yamahaa and Harley Davidsons.There is also some more stuff on Jarno Pls also google Renzo Pasolini, there is plenty of funny stuff. Renzo I have seen many times both in action and in the paddocks but I never have talked with him.
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~peer/racer-jarno.html
But back to basics.
The second bike is probably a Hyousung, maybe made in their Chinese factory. I think they also have a factory in Vietnam.
Hyosung Corporation is a Korean industrial conglomerate mostly called chaebols. Korea have had recently some big problems with these huge companies which have used some unethical means of conducting business. Hyandai, Kia are good examples and their owners have spent some time in jail. Hyosong was founded in 1957. It operates in many fields, chemicals, industrial machinery, IT, trading, construction . You name it they do it. In Korea it most known for high-rising buildings with expensive apartments. They also manufactures decent ATM machines. They used to have a automotive&motorcycle division but it was spinned off and changed name to ST Motors but it’s motorcycle brand name remained Hyosong. They are also famous for delivering motorcycles to the Olympics in Soul. Their technology is originally Suzuki based but their latest models seem more like Yamaha based. The bike in the picture seems to have a Yamaha TR1/XV1000/Virago based engine. I also think that I have seen one model with a 650 v-twin Suzuki based engine. The bikes are damned good, as good as any Japanese bike and at least in Europe they have long guarantees.
Sorry for this long reply and it seems like my “mopo karkasi kasista”, it is Finnish so try to Google translate it and tell me what it means in English.
Motorcycle Greetings and Merry Christmas
HIKO
First one is a Benelli, in some countries sold under many different names, Keeway, Qianjiang, CPI, Generic and some 20 other brand names. Today it is probably made in Indonesia in a town called Coventry, which maybe could make old Triumph manager Edward Turner "turn around in his grave". Turner is also the designer of many classic Ariel models like Ariel Square Four and all Triumph Twins starting from the Speed Twin.
The owner of the factory is the Chinese Group Quinjiang, maybe the biggest Chinese motorcycle factory with a production of about 1,5 million motorbikes per Year. Their main factory is in Zhejiang some 150 km from Shanghai. I’ve been there and it is a huge complex probably covering an area of some ten soccer fields.
The original Benelli factory is founded in 1911 by Terese Benelli and her 6 sons in Pesaro Italy. One of the sons Giuseppe Benelli later had a dispute with the family and established a new factory with the name of Motobi. Some ten years later they stopped fighting and merged again. It was at one time in the 1970:s owned by the fake Argentian “count” De Tomaso, who also bought Moto Guzzi and the car manufacturer Lamborghini. The car factory was later sold to Indonesia’s strongman Suhartos Tommy son who explained that there is a demand for cars like this in Indonesia and Indonesia needs the car technology…If he hasn’t been freed he is still in jail. Volkswagen is now owner of the brand. Moto Guzzi, together with Aprillia is now owned by the Piaggio Group, linked to Fiat and maybe more famous for Vespa. I think they have a factory now in Thailand. Benelli was sold to the Chinese in the early 2000.
Benellis history in Italy is full of legends. In road racing they had plenty of success with drivers like Mike Hailwood, Renzo Pasolini, Walter Villa and the world’s ever best road racer Jarno Saarinen. Jarno Saarinen and Renzo Pasolini died in 1973 at Monza in a crash that should have brought the organizers to jail. If You want to know a little about that crash go to
http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/f14/some-gp-history-tragic-1973-gp-monza-107588/
http://www.motorsportretro.com/2009/09/jarno-saarinen-%E2%80%93-gp-genius-part-ii/
The accident in Monza 1973 was in the first lap in Curva Grande. Renzo Pasolini crashed into an oil stream, left from Benelli factory rider Walter Villa (later several world champions on Harley/Aermachi) in the previous 350 race, but the organizer refused to cancel the race even if they knew about the oil. Pasolini went down with his Harley/Aermachi, Jarno maybe hit Pasolini when he was down but couldn’t do anything else than slide off the circuit. Jarno was just overtaking Pasolini. Both riders together with 15 others where thrown back on the circuit from the strawballs in front of the newly installed steel barriers. Jarnos Yamaha teammate Hideo Kanaya succeeded to get off from the track quite safely behind Jarno. Kent Andersson, the Swedish 125 cc worldchampion probably drove over Jarno and that killed him.
Before the race a French journalist tried to stop the 250 start in vain, the organizers just called the policia to arrest the man for obstruction of the event. The road racer Australian John Dodds who later that year became third in the 1973 250cc world championship (next year he won the Formula750 world championship) behind German Dieter Braun and another Finn Teuvo Lansivuori, tried to warn the drivers about the oil but he didn’t find Pasolini and Jarno. Officially the cause of the crash was that Renzo Pasolinis bike’s engine’s pistons seized.
Before that in Benellis history, Italian Davio Ambrosini won the 250 cc worldcahmpionm ship on a Benelli 250 in 1950. Next world champion on a Benelli was the Australian Kel Caruthers who won the world championship in 1969 also on a 250cc Benelli. Kel Carruthers went on to Work for Yamaha America and he educated some young talents like Kenny Roberts and Eddie Lawson. Familiar names? He was also involved in some MX- and Skidoo teams. Both Ambrosini and Kel Carruthers also won on Isle of Man on Benellis and I think that even before that some English guy also did it on a Benelli. Benelli was a legend.
I have some other connections also with Benelli. I used to import Benelli to Finland in the 1980:s and I visited the factory in Pesaro a few times. The only bikes I imported were actually an old stock of 750 Benelli Sei a six cylinder bike that was quite modern despite the fact that it was copied from the Honda 500 Four with two cylinders more. It was not a very good bike, but the sound was….The four cylinder Racing bikes that Benelli had in the 1960-1970 were probably also copied from Honda. Mike Hailwood was not satisfied with the frames for his racing Hondas and he sent the bikes to Italy to have new frames made. On that trip the engines were copied for Benelli according to the rumors.
Even if it doesn’t belong to this thread and site I can not loose this opportunity to tell something more about the legends who died in Monza both former Benelli factory drivers. I’ve seen them “live” many times and during the early 1970:s I travelled with my motorbike to most of all the Road Race events in Europe and later many times to Daytona.
For all You guys who think that road racing is only “jet-set style life”, beautiful women and staying in luxury hotels it was not that in the 1970:s. 90% of the riders was camping at the circuits, some in tents some in their transport cars, The English riders had their modified Bedfords and Leylands that could transport their bikes and when their bikes were out it was transformed into a “beautiful suite hotel”. Jarno Saarinen for example lived the first years of his racing carrier in his Volkswagen Sonnenschein Kleinbus together with his beautiful wife Soile. He had no mechanics, he fixed the bikes in the night between the practices and the races. He arrived to one of the first “GP-races”, was in Hockenheim, with the bike in his family”s funeral company’s car which they used to transport the dead bodies. He made an impression on his fellow riders, not only because of that, but also because introducing a new riding style “the knee on the asphalt”. Many riders thought that the man is mad and dangerous, I think that both Barry Schene and Phil Read complained about him but he was faster than them and he didn’t fall down more than anybody else.
The riders at that time were 90% amateurs riding with their own money and in their budget were the starting fee a big income. Therefore they had to participate in as many classes as possibly, they needed the starting money. They were fast mechanics also, so a 250 Yamaha were quickly converted into 350 between the races and sometimes they also started n the 500 events with the “illegal” 350 just make the start and collect the starting fee. I also know that sometimes, when their bikes broke down during the race they pushed the bikes across the finishing line a few miles just to get the extra fee for finishing the race.
Many of the riders also smuggled alcohol to the Scandinavians races. The alcohol was expensive there and it was easy to fill up all your “gasoline canisters” with 96% pure alcohol and lie to the customs that it is racing gasoline. Unfortunally some riders and later teams started to smuggle more heavy stuff to finance their sport. Another feature that lead to criminality later was that all money was paid in “brown envelopes” cash.
When I travelled, following the road racing circus in the early 1970:s I travelled with motorbike, But during that time it was easy to get into the same paddock camping were most of the riders lived. Off course riders like Giacomo Agostini, Phil Read, Barry Scheene etc, they stayed in hotels. Same did Jarno Saarinen during the last year of his carrier but before that he lived with the other riders at the camping and after he got some money as a factory rider, he told that he missed the life at the paddock with his friends. As a privateer, racing was more fun than being a factory rider.
Before the 1973 crash at Monza, Jarno Saarinen won Daytona 200 miles race for 750cc on a 350cc Yamaha, half a lap before his team boss Kel Carruthers they drove for American Yamaha. I think third was American Gene Romero also on a Yamaha 350. After that race he went on to win almost all races 1973 in the beginning of the road racing world championships, in the 500 cc class on a totally new 4 cylinder 2-stroke Yamaha. It all ended in Monza. During his short carrier as in the world champion ships he drove 3 seasons, started in 46 races and got 32 podiums. He was world champion in 1972 with a 250 cc Yamaha 1 point in front of Renzo Pasolini. To describe how amateur based the sport was then, that in 1971 Jarno was second in the world championships with some five races left. He asked the technical school were he studied to become an automotive engineer if he could get leave for the remaining races. The principal refused so Jarno had to end the season and return to shool from which he graduated as the best of the class.
Jarno was also racing with Benelli 4 cylinders and was every time faster than Giacomo Agostini. Benelli wanted to sign him desperately but he only drove for them on a temporally ad hoc basis. Off course Yamaha had the bigger financial resources at the end. In Italy, especially in Pesaro, he was and is a legend. There is plenty of active Jarno Saarinen Fan clubs there and they have very good and active Internet sites. Also in Holland he was a hero and you can find quite a lot of internet sites in tribute to him.
Actually it is even the same in OZ and Australia. Everybody knows that he was the fastest driver on the earth, Kenny Roberts, Eddie Lawson, Agostini, Phil Read, Barry Sheene, Dieter Braun,Walter Villa, Kel Caruthers,Teuvo Lansivuori, Don Emde, Rodney Gould, Kenneth Andersson, Borje Jansson, all world champions or next to it, have at different occasions “confessed” that Jarno was the fastest.
The Yamaha factory honored their hero and racing jewel by retiring from Road racing after Jarnos death. In the 1972 Yamaha worldwide brochures, all the pictures with the street models was driven by Jarno, in some pictures with his wife Soile. He was very popular at Yamaha because they knew that he was the fastest of the fast but also because he was a damned nice person with a good language skill and a splendid mechanic, All this together with a love for motorcycles took him long, but it ended to early and too abrupt.
Jarno was also honored in many other ways. In his hometown Turku there is a street called Jarno Saarinen street, his brothers are running a small, but good Jarno Museum in the same premises where they are running the family funeral business, his graveyard is a tourist object for hundreds of motorcyclists all over the world every year, especially from Italy and Holland. He was inducted into the MotoGP Hall of Fame in 2009, The American Motorcycle Heritage Foundation (AMHF) has him as the 2012 nominee for induction into the AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame., Benelli honored him by naming a Benelli model Jarno, the Formula one driver Jarno Trulli got his first name because his Italian father was a Jarno Saarinen fan. Equatarian Guinea honored him by making a stamp with Jarno… And he died almost 4o years ago!!! If You are interested pls go google Jarno Saarinen, there are hundreds of stories, pictures and videos about him. I have plenty of files about him, if somebody is interested I can try to post some here on this site.
In Australian MC-new’s Murray Barnard wrote many years after Jarno’s death :
“Jarno went on to Monza and into History. Against big and small Jarno could not fail to impress and his early death shocked the racing going public. No one could ever follow the races without the nagging fear that tragedy may strike again. Many riders had died in competition and the race still went on; but Jarnos death was enough to shake up the whole race world. Enough is enough and the factories and riders stood up and demanded safer conditions and greater care in race management. Jarno’s unexpected legacy is that today we have far safer racing environment. It is a shame that men like Jarno had to die before anyone would sit up and take notice”
Renzo Pasolini was also a very popular rider in Italy, more popular than Agostini and Walter Villa. Maybe that is a part of the reasons why Jarno has become such a legend in Italy. There is plenty of stuff about Renzo on the internet also, active fan clubs etc. He was more of a “common guy” than Agostini and his driving style was more spectacular. Ducati honored him by calling their once classic 750 model Ducati Paso and AGV had a helmet called AGV Paso.
Below You can see some nostalgian pictures of Jarno and Paso on Benellis, Yamahaa and Harley Davidsons.There is also some more stuff on Jarno Pls also google Renzo Pasolini, there is plenty of funny stuff. Renzo I have seen many times both in action and in the paddocks but I never have talked with him.
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~peer/racer-jarno.html
But back to basics.
The second bike is probably a Hyousung, maybe made in their Chinese factory. I think they also have a factory in Vietnam.
Hyosung Corporation is a Korean industrial conglomerate mostly called chaebols. Korea have had recently some big problems with these huge companies which have used some unethical means of conducting business. Hyandai, Kia are good examples and their owners have spent some time in jail. Hyosong was founded in 1957. It operates in many fields, chemicals, industrial machinery, IT, trading, construction . You name it they do it. In Korea it most known for high-rising buildings with expensive apartments. They also manufactures decent ATM machines. They used to have a automotive&motorcycle division but it was spinned off and changed name to ST Motors but it’s motorcycle brand name remained Hyosong. They are also famous for delivering motorcycles to the Olympics in Soul. Their technology is originally Suzuki based but their latest models seem more like Yamaha based. The bike in the picture seems to have a Yamaha TR1/XV1000/Virago based engine. I also think that I have seen one model with a 650 v-twin Suzuki based engine. The bikes are damned good, as good as any Japanese bike and at least in Europe they have long guarantees.
Sorry for this long reply and it seems like my “mopo karkasi kasista”, it is Finnish so try to Google translate it and tell me what it means in English.
Motorcycle Greetings and Merry Christmas
HIKO
Thanks for the extensive and very informative post, HIKO! You are a walking encyclopaedia and have many interesting stories to tell.
You're right about the Benelli, or what ever it really is. It is a sad trend that brand names get bought up by Chinese or Indian companies and then low-quality products are being offered for a low price. Interested buyers have to figure out what the product really is - often Chinese junk rebadged with a brand name; very sad! SACHS seems to be a good example.
I googled Keeway and got a lot of information from their website but still don't know where they are based. Like you wrote some companies are huge conglomerates with their hands in a lot of things, motorcycles among them. Is Keeway Chinese? They try hard to look European and do business almost everywhere.
I'm just curious, I wouldn't buy anything besides Japanese when it comes to motorcycles. European products are too expensive and difficult to service. I had several BMW in the US and frankly they didn't perform much better than cheaper Japanese bikes. Only one dealership in town and those guys were crooks!
The second bike is not a Hyosung; I only titled the photo "Hyosung GT 950" since it would be too easy to find out what kind of bike it is if it had the real title!
If it is too easy it may be wrong! ;-)
So who can identify the bike in the last photo? A hint: check out the shape of the gauges...
Merry Christmas (even though it is above 30 degrees here and I'm not a Christian) and a Happy New Year!
Be safe, don't drink at ride (at least not at the same time)!
You're right about the Benelli, or what ever it really is. It is a sad trend that brand names get bought up by Chinese or Indian companies and then low-quality products are being offered for a low price. Interested buyers have to figure out what the product really is - often Chinese junk rebadged with a brand name; very sad! SACHS seems to be a good example.
I googled Keeway and got a lot of information from their website but still don't know where they are based. Like you wrote some companies are huge conglomerates with their hands in a lot of things, motorcycles among them. Is Keeway Chinese? They try hard to look European and do business almost everywhere.
I'm just curious, I wouldn't buy anything besides Japanese when it comes to motorcycles. European products are too expensive and difficult to service. I had several BMW in the US and frankly they didn't perform much better than cheaper Japanese bikes. Only one dealership in town and those guys were crooks!
The second bike is not a Hyosung; I only titled the photo "Hyosung GT 950" since it would be too easy to find out what kind of bike it is if it had the real title!
If it is too easy it may be wrong! ;-)
So who can identify the bike in the last photo? A hint: check out the shape of the gauges...
Merry Christmas (even though it is above 30 degrees here and I'm not a Christian) and a Happy New Year!
Be safe, don't drink at ride (at least not at the same time)!
Shit KZ25
You foolished me to give the incorrect answer by naming the picture wrong, but I found it out before I posted my reply.
But I thought I foolish You back, that is why I made up the story about the Hyosung.
The bike is a Foxan Black Magic from about 2005, it is not made by the original French Voxan factory but by a new owner that took over after the company went bankruptcy.I think that that company was based in Luxemburg but production was left in France.
Later the company went burst again and now it is owned by a Monaco based company and they are not making motorcycles anymore. They are telling that they will start making electrical motorcycles in the future, Who lives will see...
The original Foxan owner Jaques or Pierre something I met sometimes in the late 1990:s at the Paris motorcycle exhibition. We had a few beers (Kroneborg brand) together and he told me about his future plans. They didn't realize...
About Keeway it is a interesting story. I have studied for some years the Quinjiang Group and what they are doing, partly because of my interest of Benelli. Their Keeway project is quite huge, they have daughter companies all over the world both in Africa Usa and Europe. Their daughter companies try to have a local "touch" giving the feeling that they are local manufacturers. In Europe they advertise that Keeway is a Hungarian Company with daughter companies for example in one of my home countries Finland, Then again in Finland, at least when they recruit people they say that it is a small family owned company....In Austria, the former home country of both Steyer-Puch and KTM they present them self as a Austrian company with extensive RD made in Austria and everybody believes that they are manufacturing the bikes in Austria. There they tell that the name of the Company is Generic and CPI. Quite funny are also their homepage in Vietnam on the Benelli brand, there they use the Benelli Heritage from the Benelli family to sell their scooters...Morally correct or not??? But their strategy is clear, production in low wage countries and marketing with a local taste and with different brands. Those who live will see if they succeed.
But their bikes are quite good as far as I know. The Benellis, when they were made in Italy until 2 years ago, were not so bad. I mean the big bike TNT series. They were also very careful handling guarantee problems. One friend bought one and when it didn't start in the morning they sent a Mechanic to pick up yhe bike 500 km to fix it. This was not in Thailand but in Finland were the wages are quite high...But we do not know how the Indonesian big bike will be...
I can still help you with the translation of the Finnish. It means that I lost control of my bike and in this connection it means that when you start writing something you lose the control. That is why I cannot concentrate on the essential when writing and start to write anything. I have talked about it with a doctor friend and he said that it is typical for people when they get old and are not able to collect new experiences, then they have to on the old memories. I believe him.
Merry Christmas
HIKO
You foolished me to give the incorrect answer by naming the picture wrong, but I found it out before I posted my reply.
But I thought I foolish You back, that is why I made up the story about the Hyosung.
The bike is a Foxan Black Magic from about 2005, it is not made by the original French Voxan factory but by a new owner that took over after the company went bankruptcy.I think that that company was based in Luxemburg but production was left in France.
Later the company went burst again and now it is owned by a Monaco based company and they are not making motorcycles anymore. They are telling that they will start making electrical motorcycles in the future, Who lives will see...
The original Foxan owner Jaques or Pierre something I met sometimes in the late 1990:s at the Paris motorcycle exhibition. We had a few beers (Kroneborg brand) together and he told me about his future plans. They didn't realize...
About Keeway it is a interesting story. I have studied for some years the Quinjiang Group and what they are doing, partly because of my interest of Benelli. Their Keeway project is quite huge, they have daughter companies all over the world both in Africa Usa and Europe. Their daughter companies try to have a local "touch" giving the feeling that they are local manufacturers. In Europe they advertise that Keeway is a Hungarian Company with daughter companies for example in one of my home countries Finland, Then again in Finland, at least when they recruit people they say that it is a small family owned company....In Austria, the former home country of both Steyer-Puch and KTM they present them self as a Austrian company with extensive RD made in Austria and everybody believes that they are manufacturing the bikes in Austria. There they tell that the name of the Company is Generic and CPI. Quite funny are also their homepage in Vietnam on the Benelli brand, there they use the Benelli Heritage from the Benelli family to sell their scooters...Morally correct or not??? But their strategy is clear, production in low wage countries and marketing with a local taste and with different brands. Those who live will see if they succeed.
But their bikes are quite good as far as I know. The Benellis, when they were made in Italy until 2 years ago, were not so bad. I mean the big bike TNT series. They were also very careful handling guarantee problems. One friend bought one and when it didn't start in the morning they sent a Mechanic to pick up yhe bike 500 km to fix it. This was not in Thailand but in Finland were the wages are quite high...But we do not know how the Indonesian big bike will be...
I can still help you with the translation of the Finnish. It means that I lost control of my bike and in this connection it means that when you start writing something you lose the control. That is why I cannot concentrate on the essential when writing and start to write anything. I have talked about it with a doctor friend and he said that it is typical for people when they get old and are not able to collect new experiences, then they have to on the old memories. I believe him.
Merry Christmas
HIKO
I have only recently found this thread and it has been very interesting! Thanks to all who have contributed. However, I have two "gripes"! 1. Reading comments about "real" motorcyclists kind of smacks of "elitism". Anything with two wheels and an engine is a motorcycle and anyone who rides a motorcycle is, by definition, a "motorcyclist". However, those of us who ride because we enjoy motorcycling and choose to do so could properly be called "enthusiasts". 2. The "guessing" and uninformed "opinions" relating to the Honda NC700 make interesting reading (in hind-sight admittedly). I bought a new NC700S in New Zealand in February and it is much, much more than a commuter. (NZD12,000 + ORC including 15% GST. That is about THB300,000 with no ABS or DCT. But NZ bikes are overpriced anyway). I enjoyed 8000+ km over 8 weeks of 1, 2 & 3 day trips in the North Island. I would have done more but I came up here and rode around Thailand on my Yamaha FZ150i. (Another 8000+ km). The "tank" storage feature of the NC700 is the greatest storage idea in a long time. The 50 horses is not an issue as the torque low down is great and very useable. The only fault so far is the seat comfort but I fixed that with a "strap-on" pad. (Must try the net idea that I use on the FZ). At 72 years (54 on motorcycles of all sizes) I am well past the need to prove anything on a 150+ horsepower rocket. Besides, I don't measure my manhood by the size of the motorcycle that throbs between my legs. Am I a "real" enthusiast or just an old fart?
Wednesday I am heading north from Phuket on my D-Tracker but maybe next month I will spend some time on the web to see what I can find to contribute. Cheers from "ol' smelly"!!!