Motorcycle Tax Increases!!!

[brian_bkk]

A friend went to Ducati yesterday.. info from him.. along the lines of my staff member that ordered his Ducati..
Ducati speculating how the other players will apply the tax.. Which is not correct after visiting Kawa.

Went to Kawasaki Rama 9 to get a new rear tube for my KLX...

Official:-
- New prices will take effect in the new year (no one knows what the prices will be)
- Current prices still apply as per below

Current price list below from the show room today.

Unofficial
- Expect Made in Thailand bike prices to stay the same price.
++ My speculation.. If true, Kawasaki want to keep market share and will chase volume sales and absorb the tax.
either straight absorb it or find other efficiencies to reclaim the lost profit where possible..

Expects the price rise to apply on imported bikes
++ makes sense..
niche market and show ponies can buy and keep in the garage and ride it to Starbucks Thonglor Sunday morning and do the once a year weekend trip out of Bangkok
++ Those that really ride.. you will find the money

Looks like we will all have to wait till the new year once everyone understand the new regulation from cabinet.. Also expect they will fine tune it..

Cheers
Brian

 

[NickyBKK]

brian_bkk;285974 wrote: A friend went to Ducati yesterday.. info from him.. along the lines of my staff member that ordered his Ducati..
Ducati speculating how the other players will apply the tax.. Which is not correct after visiting Kawa.

Went to Kawasaki Rama 9 to get a new rear tube for my KLX...

Official:-
- New prices will take effect in the new year (no one knows what the prices will be)
- Current prices still apply as per below

Current price list below from the show room today.

Unofficial
- Expect Made in Thailand bike prices to stay the same price.
++ My speculation.. If true, Kawasaki want to keep market share and will chase volume sales and absorb the tax.
either straight absorb it or find other efficiencies to reclaim the lost profit where possible..

Expects the price rise to apply on imported bikes
++ makes sense..
niche market and show ponies can buy and keep in the garage and ride it to Starbucks Thonglor Sunday morning and do the once a year weekend trip out of Bangkok
++ Those that really ride.. you will find the money

Looks like we will all have to wait till the new year once everyone understand the new regulation from cabinet.. Also expect they will fine tune it..

Cheers
Brian

It looks like some prices have increased already since last time I had a look.

As far as I know er6n was 250 and er6f was 265.

 

[brian_bkk]

NickyBKK;285975 wrote: It looks like some prices have increased already since last time I had a look.

As far as I know er6n was 250 and er6f was 265.

Three years ago when I bought my Ninja 650 is was 258 then if I remember correctly..
If increased.. Just a normal inflationary adjustment suspect

 

[NickyBKK]

brian_bkk;285976 wrote: Three years ago when I bought my Ninja 650 is was 258 then if I remember correctly..
If increased.. Just a normal inflationary adjustment suspect

3 years back, 258. 3 weeks ago, 265, today 269. Could be normal adjustment or the new tax rule has been taken into account already...

 

[brian_bkk]

Why don't you ring them and ask them.. Above is what they told me.. Have no reason to doubt them.

Brian

 

[KZ25]

Interesting is that the the KLX 125 / Tracker 125 are 10,000 THB more than the 150cc versions!

 

[TonyBKK]

KZ25;285981 wrote: Interesting is that the the KLX 125 / Tracker 125 are 10,000 THB more than the 150cc versions!

If I remember correctly it's because the 125's are fuel injected and water cooled. The 150 is cheaper because it's carb'd and air cooled. :happy1:

 

[KZ25]

They're both air-cooled but the 150 (144cc) has a carb - which is not a bad thing.

 

[SilverhawkUSA]

nikster;285963 wrote: Somebody confirmed already with Honda Big Wing Chiang Mai

CB500F 205,000 Down Payment 48,000
CB500R 210,000 50,000
CB500X 215,000 52,000

Looks like Honda's absorbing some of the new excise tax. Very lucky they just came out with new 500s, no?

Those prices are a copy of my post on another forum. Sorry Ian can't believe it, but I have the price sheet for the 500's in front of me from Honda Big Wing. I believe that what is throwing off some of the figuring and speculation is that the bikes were already taxed at the old rate (sorry I don't know what that rate was) which was included in the price. We are now seeing only the difference between the increase and the old rate reflected in the price.

 

[brian_bkk]

One thing is certain..

We have a lot of uncertainty...

We will just have to wait and see how this unfolds in the new year.
Even the bike companies are speculating about each other wrongly.

1. What will be the regulation / tax.. and how will it be applied
1.1 tweaks to what is already out there in the public domain.

2. How much will the bike manufacturers absorb to keep market share
2.2 increase spares prices
2.3 increase service prices
2.4 increase accessories etc

Looks like a good week or two until we know and all the manufactures look at what each other are doing..

 

[SilverhawkUSA]

This is a post from Thai Visa and is allegedly a translation from a Thai newspaper;

On the 18th December, the Cabinet approved across-the-board changes to the structure of excise duty on motorcycles. Previously it was based on the type of engine, either 2-stroke or 4-stroke. Now it will be based on cylinder size only.

Not greater than 150 cc 3%
150cc - not greater than 500cc 5%
500cc - not greater than 1000cc 10%
Greater than 1000cc 20%

This new rate of cabinet-approved excise duty will take effect from 19th December 2012.

A cabinet source revealed that this change will not affect people as 99% of motorcycles that people like to buy have a cylinder size of less than 150cc.

This new rate will mean that the Excise Department will collect a minimum of an extra 157 million baht from expensive and large-engined "big bike" motorcycles.

Also, supposedly the old tax rates were simply;

2-strokes were charged at 5%

4-strokes were charged at 3%

So, if this is true, That would mean the 500 are now taxed 5% of which 3% was previously included in the price of 209,000. It doesn't quite work out, as the 215,000 price is actually about a 3% increase, but I think this is basically how it is being figured. Someone else can do the math on the other models if they have the prices and see how it works out. This is all second hand information I am quoting (except for the current prices), so don't jump on me if it is not correct. :crazy:

 

[nikster]

SilverhawkUSA;285998 wrote: This is a post from Thai Visa and is allegedly a translation from a Thai newspaper;

Also, supposedly the old tax rates were simply;

2-strokes were charged at 5%

4-strokes were charged at 3%

So, if this is true, That would mean the 500 are now taxed 5% of which 3% was previously included in the price of 209,000. It doesn't quite work out, as the 215,000 price is actually about a 3% increase, but I think this is basically how it is being figured. Someone else can do the math on the other models if they have the prices and see how it works out. This is all second hand information I am quoting (except for the current prices), so don't jump on me if it is not correct. :crazy:

Good point about the delta between old and new. I didn't even know there used to be an excise tax on bikes.

 

[KZ25]

The 3% for small bikes up to 150cc should generate more money than the 5% from 150 to 500cc.

So the CB500X with ABS will be at least 230,000 THB?

 

[SilverhawkUSA]

The price for the CB500X is currently 215,000 baht. I asked about the ABS and he tried to explain something about the current braking system "is almost like ABS" he said, but that is all. There has been no mention, as far as I know, of a more expensive ABS model in our market. I read there would be one later for the U.S. Who knows?

 

[TonyBKK]

SilverhawkUSA;286013 wrote: The price for the CB500X is currently 215,000 baht. I asked about the ABS and he tried to explain something about the current braking system "is almost like ABS" he said, but that is all. There has been no mention, as far as I know, of a more expensive ABS model in our market. I read there would be one later for the U.S. Who knows?

Reckon it probably has Honda's linked brakes, which certainly is not the same as ABS, but can be a helpful crutch for novice / lazy riders who tend to stomp on the back brake more than they should.

 

[NickyBKK]

SilverhawkUSA;286013 wrote: The price for the CB500X is currently 215,000 baht. I asked about the ABS and he tried to explain something about the current braking system "is almost like ABS" he said, but that is all. There has been no mention, as far as I know, of a more expensive ABS model in our market. I read there would be one later for the U.S. Who knows?

According to Honda website all 3 500 models come with ABS.

http://www.aphonda.co.th/hondabigwing/productcompare.html

 

[SilverhawkUSA]

TonyBKK;286024 wrote: Reckon it probably has Honda's linked brakes, which certainly is not the same as ABS, but can be a helpful crutch for novice / lazy riders who tend to stomp on the back brake more than they should.

Yes, I would say you are right, that is basically how he explained it.

 

[NickyBKK]

SilverhawkUSA;286026 wrote: Yes, I would say you are right, that is basically how he explained it.

Aren't you guys talking about CBS (Combined Brake System)?

Then Honda should have mentioned CBS and not ABS me thinks..

http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-technology/brake/p5.html

 

[SilverhawkUSA]

NickyBKK;286025 wrote: According to Honda website all 3 500 models come with ABS.

http://www.aphonda.co.th/hondabigwing/productcompare.html

The U.S. sites list another model, the CR500XA which will have the ABS, but not the 500X. The Honda link is confusing as there are other discrepancies in it also. As an example the 500X has a 17 litre fuel tank, but the website shows all three models as 15.5. The US site also supports that there will be 2 models by this : Curb Weight: 430 pounds (CB500X) / 434 pounds (CB500XA) http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2013-honda-cb500x-preview .

The salesman at Honda definitely described the link brakes that Tony described, but has said nothing about ABS. There has been a lot of misinformation regarding the new bikes and the tax increase on various forums. Just have to wait and see I guess.

 

[NickyBKK]

SilverhawkUSA;286028 wrote: The U.S. sites list another model, the CR500XA which will have the ABS, but not the 500X. The Honda link is confusing as there are other discrepancies in it also. As an example the 500X has a 17 litre fuel tank, but the website shows all three models as 15.5. The US site also supports that there will be 2 models by this : Curb Weight: 430 pounds (CB500X) / 434 pounds (CB500XA) http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2013-honda-cb500x-preview .

The salesman at Honda definitely described the link brakes that Tony described, but has said nothing about ABS. There has been a lot of misinformation regarding the new bikes and the tax increase on various forums. Just have to wait and see I guess.

Ok let's wait and see. I took this pic of the CB500X at the Bangkok Motorshow a few weeks ago.

 

[NickyBKK]

SilverhawkUSA;286028 wrote: The U.S. sites list another model, the CR500XA which will have the ABS, but not the 500X. The Honda link is confusing as there are other discrepancies in it also. As an example the 500X has a 17 litre fuel tank, but the website shows all three models as 15.5. The US site also supports that there will be 2 models by this : Curb Weight: 430 pounds (CB500X) / 434 pounds (CB500XA) http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2013-honda-cb500x-preview .

The salesman at Honda definitely described the link brakes that Tony described, but has said nothing about ABS. There has been a lot of misinformation regarding the new bikes and the tax increase on various forums. Just have to wait and see I guess.

I believe the answer is inside your post. 17 liter tank means no ABS, 15.5 liter tank means with ABS. The tank is smaller because the ABS control unit is hidden inside/below the tank.

 

[SilverhawkUSA]

NickyBKK;286033 wrote:

Ok let's wait and see. I took this pic of the CB500X at the Bangkok Motorshow a few weeks ago.

Can't argue with the photo. It will be interesting to see what actually transpires.

 

[KZ25]

I read on other threads that ABS is (obviously) available for 15,000 THB more.

No mention of CBS, fortunately.

As far as I remember the X has an inch more front suspension travel, a slightly different steering head angle to make it more suitable for touring and a bigger fuel tank, ABS or not.

 

[nikster]

SilverhawkUSA;286037 wrote: Can't argue with the photo. It will be interesting to see what actually transpires.

AP Honda website not good enough? Seems pretty clear that all the Thai models come with ABS. They might be selling ABS-less models in other markets.

If you talk to any sales people in Thailand, they can tell you the price. And that's it. Most of them have never ridden a big bike, nor are likely to in the near future. If we were in Germany or something you'd expect them to have at least read the brochure. But... TIT.

 

[KZ25]

SilverhawkUSA;286028 wrote: The Honda link is confusing as there are other discrepancies in it also.

Is that the official Honda site where they list the cc as 500 instead of the actual 471?