I Will Never Understand Motorcycle Pricing

[Jomtien]

Yesterday I gone to Bangkok to visit BritBike and have a look at the new Triumph Bonneville 1200 Bobber.
The manager is very welcoming and it was easy to have a discussion with him ,immediately he offer me a trial ,17 years fulltiming in Thailand and it's the first time I can have a trial so easily.
I was in love for the bike after five minutes riding her ,despite I am a little short and I should manage to change the handbar.
The problem would be the tank capacity ,130 kms capacity is ridiculous as I ride often 600 or 700 Kms a day.

But the real problem is the price list ,if somebody can explain to me why a bike made near Bangkok cost 570,000 Bahts in Thailand ,comparing to 12000 UsD ( 420,480 B ) price tag announced in Us ,or 13000 € ( 484800 B ) price tag announced in Europe ( France ).
We can understand an imported bike have heavy import taxes ,but one made here !!!

 

[FaraGit]

You should be thankful. Just over a year ago it would have cost you over 1 million baht. Prices have dropped considerably and are not far off EU prices.

 

[Ian Bungy]

Government Tax and Duties! They have some Exemption as they are assembled in Thailand but the Government will never let You have them without taking their Cut! But as FaraGit states, Bike Prices are Fantastic here compared to the Years gone By! Are You aware they also make a Street Bobber with the Smaller 900cc Engine? That would be a Lower Priced Option? Looks almost Exactly the same but is more Fuel Efficient so no doubt has a longer Range? good Luck!

 

[Peeto]

It is still strange if I compare the price of bikes with the prices of cars.
Pickups from Ford , Mitsubishi, Toyota and so on are more expensive in Europe.

 

[brian_bkk]

Believe the cars are pretty much 100% made here or agreements to get those parts in from suppliers at a cheaper price.
Ford etc. If you look at Australia.. Imported under the FTA.. which of course.. Australia gets a bum deal as Thailand is slow to implement their part ;-)

Kawasaki bikes will have zero tariff kicking in soon from Japan.. I was reading recently... If you buy the 100% (well almost) made local bikes.. Like the ER6 and KLX.. they are much cheaper..

Guess there is various trade agreements in the back ground at play for some countries that will always distort the price..

Cheers
Brian

 

[Peeto]

The Triumph Tiger 800 X.. is also made in Thailand. But the price is higher than in Europe.

 

[brian_bkk]

That is where is gets all tricky with Made / Manufactured / Assembled and percentage of components and transitioning to manufacturing percentage of bike in Thailand..

 

[ozadr1an]

I wont profess to be an expert on the current climate... but.. there is a lot of 'ways' to 'build' bikes here in LoS..

You have Completely Built Up (CBU)/Finished Units. This is what Yamaha does for example on the R1, or Kawasaki on the ZX10.
You have CKD, or Complete knock-down.. this is a complete kit, but not assembled. But its not shipped as a 'kit'.. rather, 100 x tapered bars, 200 x Forks, 100 x sub-frames.. This works well for the likes of Ducati where parts are shared amongst many models.
You have SKD, or Semi Knock-down.. this is where they ship part-finished units, like say 'Front-end assembly', etc

Then you have 'locally manufactured'... which doesn't actully happen in Thailand. Hardly anyone does this, with perhaps the exception being the Ducati Scrambler. This is 'actual' manufacture of the whole kit and caboodle. Scramblers are made here then exported to the rest of the SEAsia/Australia/NZ market.

Now, there is different tariffs on all those things, CBU, CKD, SKD etc. CBU used to be the highest, which is why BMW's and Yamaha's used to cost stupid amounts of money. CKD/SKD let you side step those big taxes, and if you agree to 'local part substitution' for some components, then you get even lower taxes. This is what Kawasaki has done for years. Its what KTM are doing - instead of direct import of the baby-Dukes from India, they switched to taking them to Malaysia as CKD, assembling there, and bringing them into Thailand - this is what caused the ~40% price drop. This is also why Tiger's got a lot cheaper - they went from full imports to 'local assembly'..

So there is Local Assembly and Local Manufacture.. they seem synonymous, but they actually are very different from a taxation stand point.

However, the Thailand/Japan trade agreement has finally started reaching the bottom. Starting a few years back, it was agreed there would be a 5% tariff reduction year on year until it reaches '0%' at the end of this year. Its not entirely 0%, but thats another story (theres another ~10% + obviously the 7% VAT lurking in there, but thats another story). This is why you are seeing much lower prices on the imports from Japan.

So anyway, I could ramble a while, but just remember even bikes "built" in Thailand, can be "built" in many ways. And the tariffs on India, EU, etc are all still pretty stupid. Its only the Japanese imports that are now hitting rock bottom. So it doesn't surprise me in the least that even 'local' built Triumphs are still more expensive.. there is 10-20% duty on all the 'parts' still, even if they aren't paying the 30-40% duty on a complete import.

As has been said - its a much better deal right now than it was even just 2-3 short years ago!

 

[Jomtien]

Prices drop during the past years ????
I'm interessed in 3 bikes :
Honda F6C : 855.000 B ,was exactly the same price 3 years ago.
HD Sporster 1200 custom : 809.000 B ,the same price 3 years ago.
And the new Triumph ,what I forgot to write is the French price : 484.800 B ,include a 20% Vat !!!

 

[ozadr1an]

Tigers, were over the 800k mark, now can be had for 575
BMW S1000RR, over 1.1m, now 899k
R1, 1.2m, now 899k as well..
KTM 390 Duke, 380,000, now 290k

Each of those represent several thousand in price drops. I never said *every* bike was cheaper, but many many are...

 

[Jomtien]

Ok I guess I'm not lucky !
I never said every bike are still at the same price ,but those I l'm looking for are ...
( and about the F6C I don't expect any drop as the price is the same in Europe ,if somebody have an explanation ,why this Honda imported is the same price than anywhere else ? )

 

[ozadr1an]

Don't quote me on it, and like any rumor in Thailand, its just 'a rumor'.. but I believe HD will be shifting how/where things are done on several models here. They have revamped things, opened new showrooms, and depending how desperate you are to make a purchase, you might see some changes later this year in pricing.
But don't expect a huge change, keeping in mind HD's have always been 'expensive' outside the US anyway...

As for the F6C.. it might be assembled here with many local parts substitutions.. I would only be guessing. But Honda has odd pricing. as an example, the MSX125 is only 70,500 baht here, but back in Australia, it is around 125,000baht! So it can go both ways depending where something is 'made'

 

[Ian Bungy]

Honda comes under the Asian Free Trade Agreement. End of this Year Prices should drop again. That will be the last drop as it will be down to Zero. Then any Variation in Price between Countries is Purely down to Government Greed! The F6C and all the Goldwing and other Bigger Bikes are all Japanese Assembled, Full Import Models.

 

[FaraGit]

Being from the UK, I can't grumble at the current prices. Taking all things into consideration such as insurance - which alone in the UK would cost the same as a smaller bike, fuel cost cost and service, the deal here is pretty good in my opinion.

 

[Jomtien]

Faragit I love your positive attitude ,I would like to have the same.
Being french and owning a Deauville in France for my holidays I can tell you my assurance premium is pretty close ,the fuel is 25% cheaper here but a French worker make more in one hour than a Thaï in one day.

For the fun ; this morning I gone to the Harley dealer and had a look at the new 1200 roadster ,nice bike ,the tag is : 900,000 Bahts = 26,000 UsD ,the same one in Us = 12,000 Bahts.
Don't grumble

 

[FaraGit]

^SO what are you saying?

Because the average Thai worker earns on average no more than 500bht per day, motorcycle prices should accommodate? Economics don't quite work like that!

I will rephrase: PERSONALLY, and many of my fellow UK biker buddies, cannot grumble at the prices when taking all into consideration. Riding my bike is for complete pleasure and leisure (a toy). So for the slight premium of a bike, or car for that matter, is irrelevant when taking all other facts into consideration, such as cost of living here.

I wasn't being a smartass about it, just giving you my opinion. I'll leave the smilies with you.

As for Harley it is simple. Don't pay their prices and look for an alternative. I originally considered the GS 1200 but refused to pay the prices and waited for the AT. Which I'd have opted for anyway.

 

[DavidFL]

Jomtien
I agree with FaraGit- look at the big picture - it's a joy / pleasure to be able to ride & live here.
Yeah some bike prices will always be a bit silly & out of our reach, so for me I buy & ride something (1) that I can afford & (2) that I enjoy riding. The Vstrom 650 is good enough for me, because I cant justify the price of an Africa Twin.

What are you riding at the moment?
There's a GTR thread here if you want to show us
What bike(s) are you actually riding?

 

[Jomtien]

David,
Like you I enjoy my life in LOS and I'm a daily rider since I settle here during 1999.
I actually ride a Honda Shadow 750 who gave me a lot of pleasure but I'm thinking about a bigger bike.
I don't think to be a cheap Charlie but even if I can afford it I can't pass over so overpricing ,even with a thick layer of lubricant I don't like to be F....d.
Like each of you I guess we can't change anything as the bike's market is not huge but we still can dream the prices one day make sense.
Waiting this holy day I will still enjoy my rides in Thailand .
Have fun at Burapa tonight.

 

[Davo Bali]

Yesterday I gone to Bangkok to visit BritBike and have a look at the new Triumph Bonneville 1200 Bobber.
The manager is very welcoming and it was easy to have a discussion with him ,immediately he offer me a trial ,17 years fulltiming in Thailand and it's the first time I can have a trial so easily.
I was in love for the bike after five minutes riding her ,despite I am a little short and I should manage to change the handbar.
The problem would be the tank capacity ,130 kms capacity is ridiculous as I ride often 600 or 700 Kms a day.

But the real problem is the price list ,if somebody can explain to me why a bike made near Bangkok cost 570,000 Bahts in Thailand ,comparing to 12000 UsD ( 420,480 B ) price tag announced in Us ,or 13000 € ( 484800 B ) price tag announced in Europe ( France ).
We can understand an imported bike have heavy import taxes ,but one made here !!!

I do not know the exact details (as I only know the finer details of Indonesia regarding this)
..., but AFAIK , your problem is similar to ours : and is to do with engine size and the Govts wish to restrict what is available to the public.

Here In Indonesia you can buy a bike up to 250cc , and the price is comparatively the same what you buy overseas (if you discount foreign countries GST taxes or similar) ..., but in Indonesia .., the the minute you step above the 250cc or less category - then the price of that bike will double or even triple the comparative price (to what you would buy that same bike for overseas) ..,

When these rules were introduced to protect the local motorcycle manufacturing Industry , plus to lower the nations fuel consumption, and for safety reasons .The Gov't adds on luxury taxes etc to make this price hike.
AFAIK ? ..., Thailand has similar rules .., and those larger Thai made bikes you speak of - at the time those laws were created those same modelled bikes (or similar) would have likely been made somewhere else at that time (for eg; Japan etc).

Here in Indonesia If I convert the price of a BMW 800 GS to Australian Currency , In Australia you will pay about AUD $20,000 for that bike new .., in Indonesia, you would pay around AUD $57.000 for that same bike .., due to all the added Luxury taxes for bikes over 250cc
(In Indonesia, for that price you could go out and buy the price of a top of the line New Ford Ranger Wildtrack with all the extras for that price)
Many big bikes you see on the road here (there are not many) are riding around illegally. Their riders find it much cheaper to keep bribing policemen to turn a blind eye when confronted, than to pay all the taxes.

 

[Goran Phuket]

^SO what are you saying?

Because the average Thai worker earns on average no more than 500bht per day, motorcycle prices should accommodate? Economics don't quite work like that!

I will rephrase: PERSONALLY, and many of my fellow UK biker buddies, cannot grumble at the prices when taking all into consideration. Riding my bike is for complete pleasure and leisure (a toy). So for the slight premium of a bike, or car for that matter, is irrelevant when taking all other facts into consideration, such as cost of living here.

I wasn't being a smartass about it, just giving you my opinion. I'll leave the smilies with you.

As for Harley it is simple. Don't pay their prices and look for an alternative. I originally considered the GS 1200 but refused to pay the prices and waited for the AT. Which I'd have opted for anyway.

Yup you nailed it Faragit, no arguments here.

 

[monsterman]

Yesterday I gone to Bangkok to visit BritBike and have a look at the new Triumph Bonneville 1200 Bobber.
The manager is very welcoming and it was easy to have a discussion with him ,immediately he offer me a trial ,17 years fulltiming in Thailand and it's the first time I can have a trial so easily.
I was in love for the bike after five minutes riding her ,despite I am a little short and I should manage to change the handbar.
The problem would be the tank capacity ,130 kms capacity is ridiculous as I ride often 600 or 700 Kms a day.

But the real problem is the price list ,if somebody can explain to me why a bike made near Bangkok cost 570,000 Bahts in Thailand ,comparing to 12000 UsD ( 420,480 B ) price tag announced in Us ,or 13000 € ( 484800 B ) price tag announced in Europe ( France ).
We can understand an imported bike have heavy import taxes ,but one made here !!!

the bike is only assembled in LOS and thai local vehicle excise taxes are higher ex factory and dealer margins are much higher than Erope or USA

 

[Ian Bungy]

Prices are a Hell of a lot better than they used to be!!! And a Hell of a lot more models to chose from! Some Bikes are actually cheaper Here than at Home so sometimes You just have to accept what it is and go for it!

 

[Oddvar]

Big bikes is a HISO thing in Thailand, and a cheap bike is not a HISO bike.
The makers of bikes are finally realising the loss of sale just because a rich kid got the dealer ship from his family.
It looks like the makers of bikes want to take over the dealer ship them self.
Good for the customers, me think.

 

[monsterman]

why did u not go to Triumph pattaya much better stock and availabity than Bangkok

 

[FaraGit]

I was surprised how comparative Moto Guzzi is here. I was expecting some seriously extortionate price.