R1200GS in Thailand Azoulay's questions

[johngooding]

Hi Azoulay and others,
Thought the answers fitted better here in BMW land

Q? I could imagine that we are roughly in the same age range thus with some common view on confort.
A. I am just 60 and certainly do not enjoy lying down on the tank anymore. The GS gives a very upright riding position, great view of the road and surroundings, high up, feels like King of the Road.

Q? Would you have some comment on your BMW dealer in Bangkok, it's interesting to know about it even if the choice is restricted...
A BKK is one of two approved BMW Mottorad dealers in Bangkok. They do not sell cars unlike Barcelona and so are focussed on bikes. I was following recomendation from friends who had dealt with both and preferred BKK. They have been very professional all during the purchase and the workshop appears to be competent, so good experience so far.

Q? Should I understand that you would say that that the BMW coude be driven as "a bicycle" by the ease it could be handle ?
A No I would not say that. I can pick up my bicycle and carry it if I have to, not too easy with the GS. However it is very easy to make quick turns and also good with moving in and out of traffic lanes, it is quite wide at the front and so cannot get thro some of the small gaps that the BKK motorcy taxi guys manage. This is not a problem with the sort of traffic I usually meet in Khon Kaen or even in Chiang Mai. If I want to get up onto the kerb to park in the shade I can do that too.

Q? Could you comment as well how comes the bike out of the shop, I mean with which equipements as I don't know what BMW Thailand does propose normally there for such model 1200 GS // 1200 GS Adventure ???

A I have commented on your Adventure thread Maybe others such as Khun Tum will add to this.

Incidentally I considered the new 800GS, but for me it was a new unproved model, it had chain drive, which is more maintenance and tubed tyres which i was not keen on, Also I had luggage options already available to me for the 1200GS. No luggage in stock from BMW, and quite long ordering periods. I am 6ft tall and find the 1200GS a good fit, it does not seem a heavy bike to me, (but then I am used to the FJR)

Hope the above is useful Cheers John

 

[Azoulay]

Hi Friends, Hi JohnGooding,

Thanks for your detailed answer, perfectly in line with my thoughts.

On top you underlined a very inportant point I forgot in my comparaison between the800 and the 1200 GS, the presence of a driving chain !

From all you comment, prior to a test drive at a BMW dealer, my opignion is nearly done

I would say I love "to feel like King of the Road", I already practice this with my Fat Boy at sunny days in France, but for sure it should be different to feel like "ein Kaiser".... Driving position should be higher.

As you understood, even if we have a Family house in Bangkok (Ladkrabang), I try to never ride the bike in Bangkok, too much pollution, too much traffic, too much difficulties for the bikes thus I won't mind too much about the size specially if it could do some quick turn easily. I wonder how it work on tracks and muddy road at a reasonable speed when fitted with Xcross tires ?

The big issue for me when considering the 800 GS, is the novelty of the engine, that's not the famous BMW boxer. Acquiring a BMW bike, for me, is acquiring a flat twin.

I am sure GT Friends would comment this as it a bit old fashion oriented ...Anyway I will test the 800, maybe next Saturday if I manage to organise it this week.

 

[NDSinBKK]

I'm curious if you did the test, Laurent.

I agree fully with John's comments. I drive an 1150GS in Bangkok (and all over Thailand, but BKK is home base.) It is not a traffic splitter like the moto taxis, but it is so big that people give it more room, consciously and politely, than is the case with a normal sized bike.

I am the same age as John, though smaller, and though I was intimidated by the size and weight and height of the GS before buying it, I'm totally comfortable with it now.

Before coming to Thailand I also had HDs (1200S and 2003 Heritage Springer), and I find myself totally at ease with the strong torque and easy power of the Boxer.

I ride a 1200GS when I'm in the US and though when I'm there I think it is a better bike than the 1150, when I get back to Thailand I find that I'm very happy with the "Volvo-like" power and performance, as the bike's previous owner described it. My reply to him was that yes, it is like a Volvo, but without the boredom...

I'd recommend the 1150GS or 1200GS...

On se vera a BKK, n'est-ce pas?

 

[NDSinBKK]

I'm curious if you did the test, Laurent.

I agree fully with John's comments. I drive an 1150GS in Bangkok (and all over Thailand, but BKK is home base.) It is not a traffic splitter like the moto taxis, but it is so big that people give it more room, consciously and politely, than is the case with a normal sized bike.

I am the same age as John, though smaller, and though I was intimidated by the size and weight and height of the GS before buying it, I'm totally comfortable with it now.

Before coming to Thailand I also had HDs (1200S and 2003 Heritage Springer), and I find myself totally at ease with the strong torque and easy power of the Boxer.

I ride a 1200GS when I'm in the US and though when I'm there I think it is a better bike than the 1150, when I get back to Thailand I find that I'm very happy with the "Volvo-like" power and performance, as the bike's previous owner described it. My reply to him was that yes, it is like a Volvo, but without the boredom...

I'd recommend the 1150GS or 1200GS...

On se vera a BKK, n'est-ce pas?

 

[Azoulay]

Hi Friends,

Yes, in fact i did the test and even both test, I ride:

-1 1200 GS
&
-1 1200 GS Adventure

As the Dealer I visited in Paris, had both available and advise me to test as well the "normal" GS as the Adventure could be for some guys a bit too big with the height and the size of the tank.

Both bikes were fited with the genuine BMW cases and the adventure had the Akrapovic exhaust muffler.

Simply perfect, like a bicycle and at the first moment I felt an ease-to-drive sensation on both bikes.

For those who are not use to it, the drive of a GS is quite special with the front and rear absorber systems, however after few minutes you feel very safe and confortable....Very good point !

Thus my decision was taken, I'll go for a 1200GS Adventure.

But here things became a bit complicated...

I decide to e-mail to request for an offer and some details about ordering possibilities to the official bangkok dealer -Barcelona Motor- whom I visited several times with friends and met Weerawat W.

At date, you won't believe it, since the 8th of February and despites several reminders (by e-mail and faxes) and despites the very polite Marketing Departement answer that my request had been transmitted to the Motorcycle Department...Nothing, no offer, nada, maybe they are sold out (bikes around 1.200.000 TBH ???) or they are not interested to sell, anyway a strange view of Custommer Service that even in France where we are reputed for bad Custommer Service this is never reach as people want to sell anyway.

Such issue cool down my enthusiasm for buying a BMW, at least from this representative, but where to source it in fact ?

Keeping in mind that I am more often in Bangkok and Cha Am area, I wonder if it would be wise to buy it somewhere else...

My intention would have been to order it in April during my venue to LOS and to get the bike fully ready in June when I'll return for the summer hollidays, but here my plans are slightly change due to this behavior....

Would somebody have a better idea or a proposal how to improve it ?

Something clear is that we won't renew the 2 Yamaha Nuevo we have as "service city" bikes and we will go at the Kawasaki shop to buy an ER-6N and/or/or a 250 Off-road...at these prices no issue to refrain...

 

[NDSinBKK]

1. Generally I am hearing more good things about BKK than about Barcelona. You should contact them if you are determined to buy new.

2. There are enough 1200GSAs around so that I would personally not feel a need to buy a brand new one. You could certainly find one in good condition and with relatively low kilometrage for at least 25% less money.

3. Dynamic Motors in Phra Nakhon (Khun Yut) is the guy to go to for service.

 

[Azoulay]

NDS in BKK, Hi Friend,

Thanks for your reply, in fact I did not understood what you mean by BKK vs Barcelona ?

To be perfectly clear I was quite estonish by this way of handling a potential Custommer like me ???

If you have any good idea where I could source a brand new BMW 1200 GS, please ...

I could have import it from UK for instance (looking at the E/GBP exchange rate, it is specially interesting at this time) but i have a bad souvenir o my Ducati Import and i wanted to promote the local business and avoid any hassle...I should have thought wrong when I see such reaction from Barcelona...

On an other hand I did not found any 1200 GS, I found several 1150 GS, generally overpriced for bikes which have quite a few Km on the clock and already some 5/6 years....

Again if you hear something about a nice 1200 GS mint condition with legal documents, I am interested.

Now for the Dynamic Motor, I think i know the guy, a good mechanic.

For those who are reluctant on fuel injection tuning, I experimented already an electronic tuning station for my Ducati, and it is possible to find the same for BMW, so we are no more tight to an official dealer, with specific tools and ETE...

 

[Rhodie]

NDSinBKK wrote: 1. Generally I am hearing more good things about BKK than about Barcelona. You should contact them if you are determined to buy new.

2. There are enough 1200GSAs around so that I would personally not feel a need to buy a brand new one. You could certainly find one in good condition and with relatively low kilometrage for at least 25% less money.

3. Dynamic Motors in Phra Nakhon (Khun Yut) is the guy to go to for service.

I am pretty certain Yut @ Dynamik won't touch the 1200 due to the necessity for having the correct BMW computer to reset the canbus etc.
He may do some pefunctory maintenance but unless he has the computer he won't be able to do anything major.
When I last spoke to him about the 12 he said he wasn't interested.
IMO the 12 GSA is unnecessary as there are always fuel stations.
The high c of g due to fuel weight & seat height make the GSA a heavy bike especially when loaded up.
You should be able to source a 2nd hand one thru K Keng @ Barcelona.
He will have some 04-07 for sale as Thais want to buy the newer version. But he needs to be convinced that you are serious.
Perhaps its best for you to go and see him when you are next over.
He's had too many tyre kickers.
Note they are moving location to somewhere near Lad Prao.

 

[Azoulay]

Hi Friend,

As said, with a personnal electronic tuning tool such as the Technoresearch one ( http://www.technoresearch.com/ ) and the wiring harness for BMW 1200 GS, you can tune your BMW very easily.

Coming back to the necessity to convince a potential seller aboutmy determination and seriousness, I won't do any effort as that's what i will call business.

Even in LOS, I won't beg to buy something I have the money for and afford the price if it's at my convenience, the buyer is still my goodself.

 

[Rhodie]

Well that's useul as you won't need to rely on either Yut or Barcelona then.

 

[NDSinBKK]

AZOULAY wrote: NDS in BKK, Hi Friend,

Thanks for your reply, in fact I did not understood what you mean by BKK vs Barcelona ?

For those who are reluctant on fuel injection tuning, I experimented already an electronic tuning station for my Ducati, and it is possible to find the same for BMW, so we are no more tight to an official dealer, with specific tools and ETE...

1. BKK is the other BMW motorcycle dealer in Bangkok. Details from this URL:

http://www.bmw.co.th/th/en/index_narrow ... rview.html

2. Not sure what tuning station you are talking about, but last trip to N. America I brought back a Twinmax ($100) to be used for synching the throttle bodies. Along with valve setting, this is supposed to help out with basic tuning (not repair), but I haven't had to use it yet.

 

[NDSinBKK]

AZOULAY wrote:

On an other hand I did not found any 1200 GS, I found several 1150 GS, generally overpriced for bikes which have quite a few Km on the clock and already some 5/6 years....

Again if you hear something about a nice 1200 GS mint condition with legal documents, I am interested.

The link below shows a 2005 GS (or GSA?) with green book for 690K. It was advertised on the 14th of Feb and in the 3rd comment is reported as sold. An example of what's around...

http://www.mocyc.com/store/view.php?idclassified=92282

 

[Rhodie]

This is a useful gizmo if you are stuck in the back of beyond with a canbus lock-up
http://www.hex.co.za/gs911/index.html

However BMW is designing their bikes to be far more dealer dependant than less.
The 1100s & 1150s are still largely fixable almost anywhere.

 

[NDSinBKK]

Rhodie wrote: This is a useful gizmo if you are stuck in the back of beyond with a canbus lock-up
http://www.hex.co.za/gs911/index.html

However BMW is designing their bikes to be far more dealer dependant than less.
The 1100s & 1150s are still largely fixable almost anywhere.

Interesting tool, though your second point is the trump card. I would NEVER own one of the 1200s that has the electronic key that can leave you stranded. I believe that BMW has discontinued the use of that cursed thing, is that correct, and if so, with effect from what model year?

 

[Rhodie]

this South African gizmo wouldbe essential for a RTW trip.
One thing to note that you can only reboot the Canbus 9 times after which you have to buy a new one.

The Electronic key began to become a problem sometime in the '06 -'07 models.
I believe they still retain a version of it on the new GS 12s but it is no longer proving to be an issue.
I have an early '06 and it has not played up - a fuel inhjector has stuck tho.

BTW the fuel guage has never fully worked & cannot entirely be relied upon but this is an issue with all 04-07 models.
I cannot remember if I had the same issue with my 01 1150 GSA.
As soon as it starts to count down I look for fuel.

 

[jrbkk64]

As someone mentioned, Barcelona is moving to Vibhavadee soi 22, about 2 weeks from now. I think you can imagine that is keeping them busy and may be the reason they have not replied to your mail. I have had nothing but great service from them. Ask for K. Nattasak, very helpful.

My experience with BKK is limited but was terrible.

 

[Muzz]

I have purchased two new bikes from Barcelona.A 1200 Adventure and an HP2. They have been good to me. I had the Adventure fo a few weeks and hated the thing and sold it back through them at a very small loss to me. I have never used BKK.

Muzz

 

[Marco]

I use BKK to get all my spares to my LT,, got really bad feedback from Barcelona and well over priced LT parts.

 

[Azoulay]

Hi Friends,

Thanks for your comments, in fact, i should say that I am quite disappointed by the poor level of answer on my requests to these BMW dealers.

I am at present trying to obtain offers and informations about a 1200 GS Adventure, I'ld like to acquire brand new to be delivered in June in Bangkok ...

The information I received was very light and I feel like begging to obtain answers and details in due time...

Frankly, intending to spend over 1 mio TBH, I hate this kind of service and I wonder why such behavoir from people who generally are reputated for their high level of Customer Service ???

Would I have a better welcome in CM or should I turn to second hand bikes...

 

[Rhodie]

AZOULAY wrote: Hi Friends,

Thanks for your comments, in fact, i should say that I am quite disappointed by the poor level of answer on my requests to these BMW dealers.

This is standard practice here in Thailand.
In the past this has been due to limited i/net facilities at the dealers.
As well as the inability to answer fully in english, combined with a general lethargy.
Best to go into the dealer and deal direct, tho I can see this will prove frustrating for you.

AZOULAY wrote: I am at present trying to obtain offers and informations about a 1200 GS Adventure, I'ld like to acquire brand new to be delivered in June in Bangkok ...

You'd be best phoning Barcelona and asking for Khun Keng who is in overall charge of the three Barcelona dealerships [BKK/PKT/CM].
Of all associated with BMW Thailand, he is actually the only one who does try to make an effort.

AZOULAY wrote: The information I received was very light and I feel like begging to obtain answers and details in due time....

As above - this is normal.
Also remember you do not fall in BMW M/Cs main demoragraphic,
as was told to me by the last German who ran the M/C arm here in Thailand:
"Our target customer is those Thais who have bought BMW 5 & 7 series cars."
here you can see the special service they provide their high-roller customers:

A cruiser & 2 GSA being shipped upto Khonkeng to save their owners the onerous hot ride

AZOULAY wrote: Frankly, intending to spend over 1 mio TBH, I hate this kind of service and I wonder why such behavoir from people who generally are reputated for their high level of Customer Service ???.

You cannot compare BMW Thailand offering anything near the service you would find in Europe.
Comments about Barcelona & BKK vary.
I bought my GS and then a R1200S from BKK, but they reneged on the written deal with the 1200S,
and I now use Barcelona who under Keng have improved a little.
The dealers, however, have all been hamstrung by BMW Thailand trying to welch on warranty issues.

AZOULAY wrote: Would I have a better welcome in CM or should I turn to second hand bikes...

CM is now part of Barcelona, so still best to talk to Keng.
He may be able to find you 2nd hand 1200GS as well.

IMO you should really reconsider the standard GS over the GSA,
as with all that fuel high up makes it a heavy & unwieldy beast.
Off-road it's a pig & in town with boxes expect to move as fast/slow as a car.
Also there is no need for such a vast amount of fuel, which is available almost anywhere in Thailand.

Avoid buying BMW boxes - Touratech are more robust.
Also consider a Remus pipe with the straight through "Y-piece" and buying them in Europe.

If you haven't already you should be reading the GS secton of ADVRider and UKGSer websites.
Touratech & Wunderlich make myriad of useful as well as "Bling" farkles but for a price! These would best be bought in Europe.

If you are looking for a highway muncher then consider the Triumph Tiger - it would IMO be a cheaper and more satisfying buy.

If you truly want to go off-road with a bike as big as this, then the F800GS would be a better option.
However do read ADV for it's weaknesses particularly the rad, in a low speed spill needs protection.

 

[Azoulay]

Hi Rhodie,

Thanks for your very detailed answer and the the care you tooke to comment.

I fact, being an "old" Asian addict and practicing Thailand since a long, long time, I should I knew all what you told, and in fact I did know it....But, but, but, when you feel as a Customer with a big C, you can't believe it, or you don't want to believe it....

I share all your words, and I think I will go directly to the dealer and deal face to face but for next trip I will be under time pressure as being there for 2 weeks only upon which at least 7 days will be cut for the Songkran festivities...Thus I won't have so many time to look around and my intention was to already prepare it from Europe, but it's not so easy.

I will phone as well tho this keng at Barcelona, but I won't rely on my wife help has she hate all stuff around bikes, saying it's too dangerous...

I do understand as well that I don't fail into the BMW dealer "HiSo" criteria, however, the big difference, at present, is that I have the cash ready...

For the comparaison between European and Thai BMW service, OK I rally to you, you should have more experience that I could have.

Thanks as well for your advise on GS versus GSA, I think you are right and as nothing is engaged, yest, it's still time to change my mind.

You are also right as well on a good second bike, I am fully open to the idea but I do not want a too old bike, and for sure not over priced, I remember having looked for a GS few years ago and found very old a hawfull bike that sellers expected much too much for it...No way.

Anyway, Rhodie and Friends, I am open to all good proposal.Also consider a Remus pipe with the straight through "Y-piece" and buying them in Europe.

For the pipe and the direct tude, I think you mean to suppress the catalysor sytem, isn't it ? For the exhaust system, at present, AKRAPOVIC is very famous among GS BMW owners in France, REMUS a bit less, but definitively there are some things to do around exhaust...

I won't consider the Triumph Tiger as I already have for good speedy roads, my beloved Ducati Monster and that's enough, however I would like a "man" multi purposes bike such as the GS or GSA could be, of course I will be driving both, on asphalt and tracks and kind of trips I like is to go to Lao and return via some small tracks and roads...

 

[Rhodie]

This time last year it was the dealers complaining that BMW Thailand wouldn't honour warranties
and that they [the dealers] were expected to pick up the cost of making good!
Mine's out of warranty anyway and am confidently happy going to David Lek or Joe's for service work,
where I know the schedules are followed & work is actually done.
This is after the dealer denied there was a need for a 10k service,
even if the owner's manual says so.... :shock:

 

[Azoulay]

Hi Friends,

Being in France and arriving in a couple of weeks with a limited time to waste, hope you could help me on the future purchase of a BMW 1200 GS ....

The choice is still difficult for me: a GS 1200 or a GS 1200 adventure ?

At present, I still can't decide, what would be you pro and cons for Thailand riding, idlealy, I'ld like to ride this bike for going around Thailand (up to North, down to South and some cross borders trips such as Cambodia and Lao...)

Among 2 tenders to official BMW dealers in TH, only the Nort City of Spain did answer after several recalls and reminders

Here is the offer, is there a better deal you could imagine ?

-Bike: R1200GS Adv. Model 2009 1.110.000 TBH
-Insurance 27.931 TBH
-Registration 3.500 TBH
-Aluminium Case x 3 86.009 TBH
-GPS 43.000 TBH
-Protection Lamp 4.475 TBH

Could someone check for at the "other place" ?

Despites my reiterate demands, no one at the shop is able to tell me what packagedoes it include, as the GSA, at least in Europe, could come with 3 packs:

-Pack "Safety"
-Pack GS Adv. 1
-Pack GS Adv. 2

I also can not be informed if this includes:

-Chromed pipes (from the cylinders to the exhaust muffler)
-ESA (assisted supension)
-Tyre pressure indicators
-Dashboard computer
-Antithieft alarm
-ABS

Your help would be higly appreciated, sorry to put ou at contribution, but I can't obtain it from the local dealers...

On an other hand, could a Friend remind what is needed in order to buy, legually a bike in Thailand under our own name (keeping in mind that I have the "Yellow" Tabienban) ?

What is the usual deposit amount to book a bike you'll receive few month after ? Is it the use to do it so ?

In the perspective of all the troubles with bikes, I prefer to be cautious even if my two other bikes are completly clean and registred with books on my name, I do not remember the procedure, but again I would avoid waste of time and misaction.

A lot of thanks by advance and I hope to heve the opportunity to personally thanks all of you around some liquid element (I am not speaking about the Songkran holly water...) in the coming month.

Cheers and as David says "Keep he Power On !

 

[Marco]

AZOULAY wrote: Hi Friends,

Here is the offer, is there a better deal you could imagine ?

-Bike: R1200GS Adv. Model 2009 1.110.000 TBH
-Insurance 27.931 TBH
-Registration 3.500 TBH
-Aluminium Case x 3 86.009 TBH
-GPS 43.000 TBH
-Protection Lamp 4.475 TBH

Azoulay

bring your GPS or buy it in Europe in EBAY you get it in 1/2 of th price.
i got my zumo550 from USA 400US and maps in here.
also protection for your headlight is way cheaper in EU and as it is small part fit's to your suitcase, i got that from EBAY again 16USD.

I havent buy bikes from them but i know when ordering spares, i use Bkk motors, i get better service from them, i tryed and got quote from Barcelona,but it was 17% higher than Bkk.

I have one friend who got H2 from Barcelona and after 3weeks had rear suspencion leak and bring the bike back for fixing,, it took 2.5Months for them to fix it and he had to pay it,, even it was manifacture failure on part and under the warranty,,,like said i have no problems as i haven't talk to them verbally much,,just price is better for me with in spares and Bkk motors.

 

[Azoulay]

Hi Marco,

Thanks for the answer, and w<eel understood for the accessories, to source it from Europe as much as possible...OK, clear.

Today, I ordered a Touratech catalog and will surf on all all BMW accessory dealers...